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 matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...

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rogermugs
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PostSubject: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 13, 2008 11:05 pm

Whats your interpretation of this verse? End times? pre-temple? what about the 2 thess verse?
see the original post here, and the comments that were left are here below...



"Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming." Matthew 24:42,

"And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days!" - Verse 19 of the same chapter.

tljessup:
You are definately not alone on this one! I worry about it quite a bit myself and have to remind myself often what the Bible says about worrying! I just hope I'm not in the midst of a road rage or one of my other negative moments. I take heart in the fact that he knows I'm trying to catch up to speed and align myself (thoughts, actions, etc.) with his will. What I really worry about is when the Holy Spirit is taken from us, will I be strong enough to stand alone without it? (2 Thessalonians 2:7)

Roger Mugs 5/11/2008 01:08:00 PM
glad to hear I'm not alone...

I'm not sure I understand your 2 thess verse that way tho... i looked into it a bit this morning but want to look deeper.. i'll get back to you

tljessup 5/12/2008 09:38:00 PM
Please do. I heard that in a precept class on Revelations a while back, I have my own understanding of it, but haven't ever really discussed it with anyone, so I'd like to hear what you find, maybe we can discuss it?

Peter Kirk 5/13/2008 02:32:00 PM
Surely Matthew 24:19 (but not verse 42) is about the time before the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70. See also the end of verse 21: that time of distress will never be equalled again. Yes, things will be difficult in the end times, but there will also be great blessings, and faithful Christian people and their children will be kept safe. So you need not have such fear for your wife and daughter.

Tljessup, there is nothing in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 about the Holy Spirit being taken away. Yes, something will be taken away, but we are not told what. It can't be the Holy Spirit, at least before Jesus returns, because in Jesus' bodily absence it is by the Holy Spirit that Jesus' promise in Matthew 28:20 is being fulfilled. So, again, nothing to fear, we will be with the Lord for ever.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Wed May 14, 2008 12:24 am

Thanks Roger for bringing up this topic and thanks Peter for bridging that gap in my understanding of it. Smile

I went back last night and re-read the chapter in several different versions. You're right in that they really aren't specific as to who or what. Again, I was taught this in a precept class in which we used the NIV (Quest Study Bible) and it words it as such: "7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

They taught in precept that the Holy Spirit is here for us until Jesus' return, but will gradually be "taken" from us as the time of His return draws closer, at which point (and moment) of his return it will be abundantly clear who is who.

I guess my analogy would be like when you clutch/gas on a manual transmission, you take away one and give the other in equal amounts at the same time.

But Peter helped me out by reminding me that the Holy Spirit is here until His return and we are never a moment alone without one or the other.

Which brings me to, funny how the devil can sneak his way into your thoughts and skew your knowledge when you're resting on your laurels.

My interpretation of Matt 24:42 is simply, live your life 24/7 as though He's walking through the door right now. I try to keep my house clean because I never know when someones going to just "drop in" and leave me embarrassed cuz' I had a lazy moment and didn't feel like washing dishes (first impressions...). I think this is more or less the same, don't get caught being an idiot/slacker/with your hands in the cookie jar when He returns. Live like He did, love like He did every moment of every day.

Verse 19 - my thoughts... "in those days" I'm pretty certain pertain to the end times when the world will be in chaos. I think it mentions pregnant and nursing women because the number one priority is safety and health (nutrition) if you're pregnant or nursing and a loaf of bread is a weeks salary there's going to be problems. If the earthquake destroyed the city and you have to walk to the store 3 miles away with a baby in tow to find it looted and empty... but wait theres a bread a milk scalper in the parking lot and he'll give you a slice and a cup for $500? I can't even imagine.

But to go along with that, Luke 22-31 No problem, relax. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 4:54 pm

I've always wondered about this verse:

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be with the coming of the Lord" (slight paraphrase Razz)

In the days of Noah, God obliterates Evil, and leaves Noah on earth Smile

It seems.. weird.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 8:28 pm

Geoff wrote:
I've always wondered about this verse:

"As it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be with the coming of the Lord" (slight paraphrase Razz)

In the days of Noah, God obliterates Evil, and leaves Noah on earth Smile

It seems.. weird.



Wat youre saying Seems pretty right on to me geoff. What's the question?

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 9:05 pm

well it raises a few things...

The nature of the rapture.. and what we can expect when Jesus returns...

That is, the "rapture" or "Taking up" appears to be of the wicked, not the righteous (the righteous are left to their inheritance, the earth). And of course, when Christ returns (synonymous with the "rapture") appears to be for judgement and not some other odd purpose.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 10:58 pm

OOOOHHH... now I C the discrepancy...

although I would interpret that scripture to be more a reference to all evil being wiped off the face of the earth....
wiped... not caught up... as in drowned instead of brought into heaven or whatever.

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 11:10 pm

Well, yes, that fits. The point being that it is the wicked who are removed from earth, not the righteous.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 11:28 pm

The wicked aren't removed. they're utterly destroyed... the righteous may be moved to heaven or whatever...

either way, I dont think I accept the rapture happening at the same time as the second coming... I'm not sure I dont... i just have no idea

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 11:48 pm

removed... utterly destroyed, just semantics Razz

As for ideas... doesnt this passage give you one?

Wink
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Mon May 19, 2008 11:59 pm

when it comes to this... i have to quote tim


http://ricchuiti.blogspot.com/2008/04/my-eschatology.html

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 20, 2008 12:04 am

hmm

I think there are some things we can be fairly certain of...

1. There will be a rapture, but it wont be the righteous who disappear.
2. Because it's "as it was in the days of noah" - we know that it is judgment.
3. Therefore when Christ returns it is to destroy evil, and bring His Kingdom to its eschatalogical fulfillment.

Thats about as detailed as I would like to go however Razz
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 20, 2008 12:04 am

rogermugs wrote:
http://ricchuiti.blogspot.com/2008/04/my-eschatology.html
That is hilarious.

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 20, 2008 7:07 pm

incredible. I'll be back later (hopefully tonight) to post my thoughts on this as what Geoff is saying I think ties into your blog about UFO's as well. I'm going to step way on out on a limb tho... but sometimes I'm pleasantly suprised to find I'm not the only one thinking some of these things.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 20, 2008 7:13 pm

btw, I think its unlikely that the Holy Spirit is removed. The comforter will be with us until we're perfected. Not only that, but the Spirit will always be with us... or God becomes a dualinity (is there such a word?)
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Tue May 20, 2008 7:13 pm

tljessup wrote:
incredible. I'll be back later (hopefully tonight) to post my thoughts on this as what Geoff is saying I think ties into your blog about UFO's as well. I'm going to step way on out on a limb tho... but sometimes I'm pleasantly suprised to find I'm not the only one thinking some of these things.

i'm pleased you're postulating away as you are.

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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Thu May 22, 2008 1:03 am

I'm pretty convinced now after some reading and surfing and lecture audio that 2Thess2:7 AND 8 correspond with Rev12:7-9.
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Thu May 22, 2008 5:04 pm

I agree...
The return of Christ in victory over evil, and its destruction! Smile
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PostSubject: Re: matt 24:19, 42 and 2 thess 2:7 .... hmm...   Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:25 am

Try this: http://yhwhmlk.wordpress.com/2008/08/02/the-olivet-discourse/
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