| I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic |    |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
 |  Subject: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic  Fri May 09, 2008 3:42 pm | |
| | thats pretty much all i have to say about it |
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tc
Immoderator
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 43
Location : CA
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Fri May 09, 2008 7:17 pm | |
| | rogermugs (admin) wrote: | | thats pretty much all i have to say about it |
What is a heresy according to Scripture? How does praying in tongues fit the bill? |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Fri May 09, 2008 8:38 pm | |
| okay... first of all... i dont believe that at all.. i just wanted to kick off the forum with something a tid bit juicy...
second of all... what biblically defines a heresy? hmm... gonna have to go with galations here 1:8&9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
so maybe tongues or not cant be heresy, although i'm sure this definition can be broadened... |
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Geoff
Novice
Age : 41
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 29
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
| | Subject: hmmm Fri May 09, 2008 11:12 pm | |
| | I think Chris Tilling speaks in tongues... |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 9:40 am | |
| | Geoff wrote: | | I think Chris Tilling speaks in tongues... |
is that a reason to do it? or to think its heretical? |
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scott gray
Postulant
Joined : 10 May 2008
Posts : 9
| | Subject: necessary heresies Sat May 10, 2008 11:58 am | |
| heretics don't indulge in heresies just to piss off the orthodox. when might speaking in tongues make sense? when might the outcome of speaking in tongues be more adventageous than the outcome of not speaking in tongues?
Last edited by scott gray on Sat May 10, 2008 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : poor spelling skills) |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 12:08 pm | |
| | scott gray wrote: | | heretics don't indulge in heresies just to piss off the orthodox. when might speaking in tongues make sense? when might the outcome of speaking in tongues be more adventageous than the outcome of not speaking in tongues? |
for me, praying in tongues is what helps me to pray always. There are a lot of time where i'm at my wits end... i want to pray but I cannot focus either because I'm angry or stressed out or have just used all the words I can think of.
tongues helps me to continue praying, assuming the Lord is praying the right things through me.
also... scott. can you help us understand the argument for why NOT to pray in tongues? |
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scott gray
Postulant
Joined : 10 May 2008
Posts : 9
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 12:22 pm | |
| i find the lord's prayer is another of those 'what should i do when i can't think of anything to say' responses.
i can think of occasions where praying in tongues would not be advantageous, but not a general principle making it a 'heresy' against an 'orthodoxy.' at least, not in any way that matters.
peace--
scott |
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Peter Kirk
Postulant
Joined : 10 May 2008
Posts : 7
Location : Chelmsford, UK
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 4:36 pm | |
| | I'm glad you didn't mean it, unless you are referring to Chris Tilling's "tongues". |
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tc
Immoderator
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 43
Location : CA
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 8:37 pm | |
| | rogermugs wrote: | okay... first of all... i dont believe that at all.. i just wanted to kick off the forum with something a tid bit juicy...
second of all... what biblically defines a heresy? hmm... gonna have to go with galations here 1:8&9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
so maybe tongues or not cant be heresy, although i'm sure this definition can be broadened... |
It seems to me that any teaching that undermines the sufficiency of the work of Christ at Calvary, deny his true nature, the resurrection, his second coming, is a heresy. |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 8:56 pm | |
| | tc wrote: |
It seems to me that any teaching that undermines the sufficiency of the work of Christ at Calvary, deny his true nature, the resurrection, his second coming, is a heresy. |
good call |
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scott gray
Postulant
Joined : 10 May 2008
Posts : 9
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 9:03 pm | |
| oh, tc--
as a postmodern thinker, you've given me half a dozen presuppositions that need challenging and unpacking! meat for the postmodern table! bless you.
where shall we begin?
scott |
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rogermugs
theologer
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 355
Location : east yo
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 9:11 pm | |
| | scott gray wrote: | oh, tc--
as a postmodern thinker, you've given me half a dozen presuppositions that need challenging and unpacking! meat for the postmodern table! bless you.
where shall we begin?
scott |
anywhere I beg. Its all so fascinating to me |
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scott gray
Postulant
Joined : 10 May 2008
Posts : 9
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 10:18 pm | |
| first--
i challenge. it's my nature. don't take offense.
challenge back. question my presuppositions. i learn more that way.
tc, you said: "It seems to me that any teaching that undermines the sufficiency of the work of Christ at Calvary, deny his true nature, the resurrection, his second coming, is a heresy."
1. i'm going to assume the 'work of christ at calvary' is primarily salvific; is this correct? (the phrase seems like jargon; is it associated with a particular dogma or denomination?) if it is more than salvific for you, what else is it?
2. 'sufficiency' implies 'it is enough.' am i correct? what constitutes 'enoughness' for you regarding the work of christ at calvary? how would someone undermine this 'enoughness' in orthodoxy or orthopraxy?
3. what is christ's 'true nature' for you? it seems to me there are as many answers to this as there are christians.
4. is to deny the resurrection for you soley a matter of belief (orthodoxy)? or, how is it possible to deny the resurrection in praxis?
5. there are as many models of expectation for the second coming as there are christians, too. what is your expectation of christ's second coming?
6. and back to the beginning. what do you feel is a 'teaching?' in particular, how is a teaching related to indoctrination, training, and education?
there's my (first) half dozen.
peace--
scott |
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Geoff
Novice
Age : 41
Joined : 09 May 2008
Posts : 29
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
| | Subject: Re: I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic Sat May 10, 2008 11:00 pm | |
| | rogermugs wrote: | | Geoff wrote: | | I think Chris Tilling speaks in tongues... |
is that a reason to do it? or to think its heretical? |
Well, unless Paul was a heretic, its not heretical.. |
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| I think anyone who prays in tongues is a heretic | |
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